{"id":2114,"date":"2013-12-17T19:44:08","date_gmt":"2013-12-17T19:44:08","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/hansvandergugten.nl\/?p=2114"},"modified":"2015-09-17T17:04:05","modified_gmt":"2015-09-17T15:04:05","slug":"churlish-gunas-rejected-as-not-in-keeping-with-sampradaya-or-meji-and-ramji-4","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/hansvandergugten.nl\/?p=2114","title":{"rendered":"Churlish Gunas rejected as not in keeping with sampradaya, or Meji and Ramji 4."},"content":{"rendered":"

Just decided to clean out my drafts. This one has been resting here since July.
\nSo it is by now some 5 month ago that I wrote this:
\n\"fake_sampradayas-356x224\"<\/a><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

It is already over two month ago that Diederik forwarded me the May 2013 Newsletter<\/a> of James Swartz’ Shining World, and had added ‘What do you think? Curious.’<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Curious to find what he wanted my thoughts about, I took a look. And wrote him back:
\n“Zag net je mail en heb een tiental minuten in die nieuwsbrief gegrasduind. Benieuwd naar
\nhet onderwerp waarover je mijn reactie met nieuwsgierigheid tegemoet\u00a0\u00a0 ziet.
\nStuitte al snel op het woord complaint, dat, jawel, 18 maal in dat verhaal voorkomt.
\nGekeken naar wat er rond die 18 woorden gezegd wordt en ik zie het bekende beeld.
\nDe arrogantie neemt toe, is mijn simpele conclusie.”
\nGoogle translated it goes like this:
\n“Just saw your mail and have ten minutes browsed in the newsletter. curious about
\nthe topic you meet with curiosity see my reaction.
\nCame quickly on the word complaint, that, yes, 18 times found in that story.
\nLooked at what was said about those 18 words and I see the familiar image.
\nThe arrogance increases, my simple conclusion.”<\/p>\n

Just have read the newsletter again and completely, especially the cryptic part about this complaint(s). And then it is clear that my writing is in vain. As was all my communication to James Swartz till now. (That is only so in as far as a result is expected from it. As a means for myself to follow my saddhana it is fine in and of itself and we never know).
\nNonetheless, let’s consider this a formal finale.<\/p>\n

Here is what is said about Complaining to the club of friends called Shining World:
\n~ Feedback on the Theme of the Last Newsletter<\/em><\/strong>
\nAs mentioned above, the response to our endorsees has been hugely positive<\/em><\/strong>
\nand all the feedback has been great.<\/em><\/strong>
\nWith regards to the complaints that I wrote about, we also<\/em><\/strong>
\nhad mostly very positive feedback. I would like to clear up<\/em><\/strong>
\na few things so that everyone is very clear about our position<\/em><\/strong>
\non this issue, and then leave it to rest. The importance and<\/em><\/strong>
\nrelevance of bringing this up at all is only with reference to a<\/em><\/strong>
\nteaching, as James and I never focus on negativity of any kind.<\/em><\/strong>
\nWe heard back from one of the complainants who wrote<\/em><\/strong>
\nto James saying that James \u201csurely does not need me<\/em><\/strong>
\nto defend him\u201d. This man missed the point; but yes this<\/em><\/strong>
\nis indeed a fact and I made that very clear in the last<\/a><\/em><\/strong>
\n<\/a>Newsletter<\/a>. James does not need any defending.<\/em><\/strong>
\nWhile it is true that I do stand strongly in support of who<\/em><\/strong>
\nJames is, how selflessly he gives of himself and the value<\/em><\/strong>
\nof his service to Vedanta; the point was that it is not him that I am defending. I defend the<\/em><\/strong>
\nintegrity of the sampradaya and what it stands for, like James does. Ignorance being what<\/em><\/strong>
\nit is a few guard dogs at the temple gates are quite useful. Along with our team who have the<\/em><\/strong>
\nsame commitment to Vedanta and the tradition as we do, we make a great pack!<\/em><\/strong>
\nWe also had feedback from a good friend of ours with regards to this issue. He felt that<\/em><\/strong>
\nby making such a strong point of the complaints, this will discourage anyone from ever<\/em><\/strong>
\ncomplaining again. I presume that by this he implies that people have the right to complain.<\/em><\/strong>
\nI suppose that is true in most situations, but since participation in Shiningworld is entirely<\/em><\/strong>
\nvoluntary, it seems rather churlish to make issues. I agree with him that my opinions about<\/em><\/strong>
\nthe complaints that were mentioned were strongly voiced and they were my opinions; but<\/em><\/strong>
\nthey reflect the position both James and I have regarding this issue. My main point in voicing<\/em><\/strong>
\nthe complaints was not to complain about the complaints per se; neither was it to defend<\/em><\/strong>
\nJames. We certainly do not take them personally and James and I are not offended by them; quite the contrary. We have deep empathy for the people involved because we understand<\/em><\/strong>
\nthe source of the complaints.<\/em><\/strong>
\nWe do not see people involved in these or any other \u2018issues\u2019; there are no people \u201cout there.\u201d<\/em><\/strong>
\nThere is only rajas, tamas and sattva, the gunas. That\u2019s it, that is the entire \u201cstory\u201d and when<\/em><\/strong>
\nyou see that, everything dissolves in the light of self knowledge. To repeat: the complaints are<\/em><\/strong>
\ninteresting only insofar as they are a teaching because they highlight how impersonal and<\/em><\/strong>
\ninsidious rajas and tamas are. We have made the theme for this Newsletter the teaching<\/em><\/strong>
\non the gunas as they relate to the Isvara-jiva-jagat identity, for this reason.<\/em><\/strong>
\nEven though we understand the source, we wanted to address the \u2018issue\u2019 because of the<\/em><\/strong>
\nnature of the complaints. They were not in keeping with the tradition of Vedanta and not<\/em><\/strong>
\nright because the people involved had gained so much from James\u2019 teaching. I felt that<\/em><\/strong>
\ngratitude was the appropriate response.<\/em><\/strong>
\nWhat real reason is there to complain about Shiningworld? It upholds the purest Vedantic<\/em><\/strong>
\nteachings and only wishes to serve. James and I, along with our endorsees, offer our services<\/em><\/strong>
\nfreely. James has done this for the last 40 + years of his life. He has taught all of us who write on his behalf for shiningworld to be scrupulously careful of not bringing ourselves into the<\/em><\/strong>
\nteaching. He has taught us to teach according to the great tradition of the sampradaya. The evidence<\/em><\/strong>
\nof this is clearly visible in the quality and style of the endorsees e-satsang replies. James and<\/em><\/strong>
\nI and our team are dedicated to vigilantly upholding the integrity and impersonal nature of Vedanta.<\/em><\/strong>
\nWe had a complaint from one person who accuses Shiningworld of becoming a corrupt<\/em><\/strong>
\norganization because he did not get the recognition he wanted from the endorsees. This<\/em><\/strong>
\nin his eyes disqualified the endorsees because they were therefore not \u2018genuine. It was such<\/em><\/strong>
\nblatant projection and denial that it provided us with a very interesting opportunity to see<\/em><\/strong>
\nrajas and tamas in operation at a level of refinement we have seldom witnessed. Ignorance<\/em><\/strong>
\nis indeed highly intelligent! <\/em><\/strong>
\nHere is what Ramji had to say to him…<\/em><\/strong>
\n\u201cShiningworld is not an organization. It is a group of likeminded friends whose sadhana is<\/em><\/strong>
\nserving Vedanta. It confers no status to be part of this group. The rules are established and<\/em><\/strong>
\nenforced by Isvara. I encouraged others to write satsangs to refine their understanding and<\/em><\/strong>
\ntheir ability to communicate because Isvara has other duties for me. The idea is only to<\/em><\/strong>
\nrespond to queries from seekers, not to complain about the qualifications of the endorsees.<\/em><\/strong>
\nWe encourage communication as friends. The dharma of friendship is the dharma of Shiningworld<\/em><\/strong>
\nas it is the dharma of Vedanta teaching. Krishna and Arjuna were friends. Friends treat each<\/em><\/strong>
\nother as equals. They do not set themselves apart by doubting each other\u2019s authenticity.<\/em><\/strong>
\nFriendship is based on the non-dual nature of reality.\u201d<\/em><\/strong>
\nThis sums it up. Shiningworld is a friend to everyone and has no agenda other than to be<\/em><\/strong>
\nof assistance to those who are seeking self-knowledge. Those of us who uphold and support<\/em><\/strong>
\nshiningworld do so because of our love for the truth and we make no claim to be perfect<\/em><\/strong>
\nor beyond reproach as people. We all have our characters and particular style that may<\/em><\/strong>
\noffend some people. However Vedanta has nothing to do with who we are as people, although as qualified teachers we share a common goal and work as a team. We are only doing what<\/em><\/strong>
\nwe do to serve the truth and the people that come to us, to the best of our ability. Ramji<\/em><\/strong>
\nhas dedicated his life to the dissemination of Vedanta and has left a trail of happiness in his<\/em><\/strong>
\nwake. He gives tirelessly of himself to anyone who comes to him. What is there for anyone<\/em><\/strong>
\nto complain about? So, please note that in future all complaints will be taken from this position,<\/em><\/strong>
\nmeaning they will not be taken seriously at all!<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n

So, here we have it again: there are no people out there, complaining is just one of the gunas at work, when you complain you have missed the point and this particular complaint was, almost according to Isvara herself, (who also makes and enforces the rules in this shining world) “not in keeping with the tradition of Vedanta and not
\nright because the people involved had gained so much from James\u2019 teaching.”<\/p>\n

I could go on and point at where from my pov there is a cultish self defense going on there,
\nBut who over there is interested? For sure there is no one in there too, just a bunch of gunas.<\/p>\n

For me, I had the experience that James was seeing a person first when he met me last Januari in Tiru. Only after seeing this person, his memory came up with what he remembered of the patterns that he had detected a year before and how he relates to that.
\nJust another of my Tiruvannamalai Peyton Place stories, direct from my notes made in the first week of Januari 2013:
\n“Funny how the flow goes. Diederik was exploring where the new venue is where his series of lectures by James Swartz is going to take place. It was a two hour walk from where we are staying at the moment, so renting a bike will is a necessity for him.<\/em>
\nWe had the place, the Sunshine Guesthouse, in sight and who was coming from the right side over another path leading to the one we were trotting? James! <\/em>
\nHe was, through my eyes, looking older and even a bit wilder than last year.<\/em>
\nWe waited at the place where he would reach our path. I stayed a bit behind. James and Diederik hugged and then Diederik looked at me ans said something like ‘This is Hans, you know him’. I saw anger flaming up in James, he pointed a finger at me and said fiercely: ‘No more trouble this year’. Followed by an explanation from his side: ‘I used to have personal relationships with people, but now I have become famous, I don’t have time for that anymore. You have to distinguise and keep separate the Self and the little self. When you confuse the Self and my little self, it is confusing for the people that come for the teaching. What I have to teach can never be personal. So, no more trouble this year.’<\/em>
\nI said to him: ‘You have disqualified me for advaita vedanta, which I think is nonsense, so don’t worry, I will not come to your lectures.<\/em>
\nThen he gave another privat lecture, stating more or less the same. And then we split.”<\/em><\/p>\n

There is a paradox in your behaviour toward people that express observations that you do not like, or teachers that you consider not fit to tell the Truth, the whole Truth and nothing but the truth.
\nIn the case that is described in your newsletter is its the same pattern again: disagrement from your side leads to a reaction wherein the person adressed is made stupid. And in stating that you only see gunas at work and not a person out there,\u00a0 makes it rather stupid (seen thru my eyes) to blame the not existing person for the behaviour of the gunas.
\nBut who am I?
\nHey, wasn’t that Ramana’s question?
\n<\/em><\/p>\n

————————————————————————————————–<\/p>\n

Ramji and Meji 1<\/a>
\nRamji and Meji 2<\/a>
\nRamji and Meji 3<\/a>
\nRamji and Meji 4<\/a>
\nRamji and Meji 5<\/a>
\nRamji and Meji 6<\/a>
\nRamji and Meji 7<\/a>
\nRamji and Meji 8<\/a>
\nRamji and Meji 9<\/a>
\nRamji and Meji 10
\n<\/a>Ramji and Meji 11<\/a><\/h6>\n

 <\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Just decided to clean out my drafts. This one has been resting here since July. So it is by now some 5 month ago that I wrote this:   It is already over two month ago that Diederik forwarded me … Continue reading →<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":4,"featured_media":2122,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_s2mail":"yes","jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[6],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-2114","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-my-blog"],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"https:\/\/hansvandergugten.nl\/wp-content\/uploads\/2013\/07\/fake_sampradayas-356x2241.jpg","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack_shortlink":"https:\/\/wp.me\/p1tD9I-y6","_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/hansvandergugten.nl\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2114","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/hansvandergugten.nl\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/hansvandergugten.nl\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hansvandergugten.nl\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/4"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hansvandergugten.nl\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=2114"}],"version-history":[{"count":3,"href":"https:\/\/hansvandergugten.nl\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2114\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":4350,"href":"https:\/\/hansvandergugten.nl\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2114\/revisions\/4350"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hansvandergugten.nl\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/media\/2122"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/hansvandergugten.nl\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=2114"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hansvandergugten.nl\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=2114"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hansvandergugten.nl\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=2114"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}