From this meeting the text is available:

Germany, Munich, september 5,2003.
  > No need to speak and you are most welcome to, if you like.
  < There is one complex question that can wait. It is going on in my head and getting clearer and that’s for me an insight thing and I’ll see what happens. Basicly I don’t have questions. I am strugling with a paradox like: I’m so f*cking fed up with all the nonsense that is superfluous, not necessary anymore. I am really impatient. And it is becoming just in my investigation clear, as a metaphor, that when you have a swan feather on the surface of water and you want to force it in a certain direction by blowing it, even that is violence. And that makes me crazy, I want to do something. And I can see that … Well, I am going to sit in this
  > Yeah.
  < That’s a deal. And that’s about it.
  > In this moment, no idea of anything being different, what’s here?
  < Perception.
  > Perception.
  < And in a small version of what used to be huge [the mind] there is a knowing of what is percieved.
  > And beyond that knowing?
  < Actually I heard myself think ‘oh shit’ and I grabbed my chair. Can you ask that again?
  > Beyond perception?
    Another way of saying it is: when you’re just here, and there is no energy spent to even know, what’s happening?
  < I get confused. There was a thought. Something like: before I can answer this I have to get into my legs. But this is not an experience, I only know this because the thought is there.
  > So, some fun exploration.
  < Ja, absolutely. And I hear my mind commenting oh shit, I only wanted to say goodbye. I mean hello.
  > May be it was more like good bye.
  < And I know that there is a step that I don’t see or feel and I can feel the fear. And what is happening now can also happen over there and I stay for two weeks. Thank you.
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